SPNception
Aug. 7th, 2010 08:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tartysuzThis post is for people who are familiar with Inception and are open to speculating about Supernatural Season 6. (No spoilers.)
In SPN 5.22, one of Dean's objections to Sam's plan to jump into the pit with Lucifer was that Hell would be a lot worse for Sam than for Dean. (In SPN 4.18, they both marvelled that Sam was allowed in Heaven at all because, as Sam said, "I've done some things.")
Assuming that Hell is/will be worse for Sam, what exactly would that mean? Initially, I mused that perhaps time might move at a different pace for Sam. Instead of one Earth month translating into 10 Hell years, maybe it's 20 or 30 years. Then I saw Inception and revisited this speculation.
Suppose Hell is structured as Dante described, and that different circles of Hell run on different clocks. In the first circle, time would be similar to Earth time, but the more serious your sin, the farther down you go, and the more Hell-time passes per Earth unit of time. Interestingly, in Inception, the farthest dream level is Limbo, and that's where Dante's circles of Hell start.
Dean was a righteous man when he went to Hell; heck, that's why they wanted him. He may eat too much, drink too much and have too many one-night stands, but as far as Heaven and Hell are concerned, he is almost practically sinless because he has not actually done anything evil. He's killed supernatural things because they have threatened humans (Dean is basically humanity acting in self-defence), and he killed people possessed by demons because he didn't realize there was a difference. But he obeys his father, he protects his brother, he honours his mother's memory. The petty fraud? It doesn't hurt any people and it's done to support his virtuous mission. On Dante's scheme, Dean could could be assigned to the Second Circle (Lust), but we've seen only one instance where Dean gave in to desire over duty: when he took off to play video games, leaving little Sammy unguarded -- but Dean was 10, and he never made that mistake again. The next circle of Hell is reserved for the gluttonous, but Dean is not particularly gluttonous. He just eats when he can. In fact, he'll go without just to ensure everyone else gets their share. Heck, that's how he got to Hell: it's not for anything he did, but because he selflessly traded his soul to bring Sam back from the dead. While not entirely virtuous (he had to deal with a demon), as an action that expresses both Dean's selfless love of his brother, as well as Dean's self-imposed penance for failing to protect Sam, Dean's deal to go to Hell preserves his reputation amongst the pro-Apocalypse angels and demons as being a righteous man.
Sam, on the other hand, pretty much went straight to the lower circles of Hell once he transgressed. He is fairly acetic, so lust and gluttony aren't really where he fails. But avarice (4th circle: his pride), wrath (5th: his anger) and betrayal (9th: his separation from John and later Dean, and his dalliance with a demon) have Sam's number. And there are those things he did to stop the Apocalypse, which he knew were evil, like drinking demon blood and ordering the slaughter of an innocent. It could be argued that he, like Dean, was transgressing in order to complete a virtuous mission, but whereas Dean wasn't hurting anyone, Sam did, very much knowingly in the case of nurse Cindy. However, it could also be argued that Sam would have been very selfish *not* to do these things; wouldn't he have been the most selfish person in humankind to let all of humanity fall because of his prideful principles?
Clearly, the game was rigged by pro-Apocalypse angels and demons so that humanity's champions (Sam and Dean) could not win without going Darkside. Dean had to sell his soul to get to the first levels of Hell, and Sam had to corrupt his soul to get to the bottom of Hell. Lucifer needed Sam to be physically strong enough and morally fit (from a demonic point of view) to become his vessel. Heaven, under Zachariah's management, didn't mind because Sam's actions would bring on the Apocalypse. But if Supernatural follows Dante's blueprint, there is an additional reason. Lucifer is supposed to be imprisoned in the Ninth Circle of Hell. For Sam to completely succeed in putting Lucifer back in his box (actually a prison of ice), Sam would have to slam Lucifer all the way to the basement, and he could not do that without ripping through all the circles of Hell.
So in what ways could Sam's Hell be worse than Dean's? If we apply Inception logic, Sam could be trapped with Lucifer for, say, 400 years, not just 40. (If anyone knows the actual calculation for the passage of time between dream levels in Inception, let me know and I'll do the math for Hell.) Would Sam be forced to torture like Dean was? Well, considering that Sam knowingly killed people to get to the point where he is, and that he tortured Alastair even after he gave up the info Sam needed, that would seem redundant. Would Lucifer be gnawing at Sam the way Satan chews up traitors in Dante's Inferno? I imagine it would be much worse. He would give Sam favoured child status and passive-aggressively grill him for centuries to explain why he jumped into the pit. For Sam, it would be like moving back with a parent you tried to get away from -- one who has fallen in the world and can't get over why you carry out his career expectations for you. Sharing a basement suite. For 400 years. Now that would be Hell!
In SPN 5.22, one of Dean's objections to Sam's plan to jump into the pit with Lucifer was that Hell would be a lot worse for Sam than for Dean. (In SPN 4.18, they both marvelled that Sam was allowed in Heaven at all because, as Sam said, "I've done some things.")
Assuming that Hell is/will be worse for Sam, what exactly would that mean? Initially, I mused that perhaps time might move at a different pace for Sam. Instead of one Earth month translating into 10 Hell years, maybe it's 20 or 30 years. Then I saw Inception and revisited this speculation.
Suppose Hell is structured as Dante described, and that different circles of Hell run on different clocks. In the first circle, time would be similar to Earth time, but the more serious your sin, the farther down you go, and the more Hell-time passes per Earth unit of time. Interestingly, in Inception, the farthest dream level is Limbo, and that's where Dante's circles of Hell start.
Dean was a righteous man when he went to Hell; heck, that's why they wanted him. He may eat too much, drink too much and have too many one-night stands, but as far as Heaven and Hell are concerned, he is almost practically sinless because he has not actually done anything evil. He's killed supernatural things because they have threatened humans (Dean is basically humanity acting in self-defence), and he killed people possessed by demons because he didn't realize there was a difference. But he obeys his father, he protects his brother, he honours his mother's memory. The petty fraud? It doesn't hurt any people and it's done to support his virtuous mission. On Dante's scheme, Dean could could be assigned to the Second Circle (Lust), but we've seen only one instance where Dean gave in to desire over duty: when he took off to play video games, leaving little Sammy unguarded -- but Dean was 10, and he never made that mistake again. The next circle of Hell is reserved for the gluttonous, but Dean is not particularly gluttonous. He just eats when he can. In fact, he'll go without just to ensure everyone else gets their share. Heck, that's how he got to Hell: it's not for anything he did, but because he selflessly traded his soul to bring Sam back from the dead. While not entirely virtuous (he had to deal with a demon), as an action that expresses both Dean's selfless love of his brother, as well as Dean's self-imposed penance for failing to protect Sam, Dean's deal to go to Hell preserves his reputation amongst the pro-Apocalypse angels and demons as being a righteous man.
Sam, on the other hand, pretty much went straight to the lower circles of Hell once he transgressed. He is fairly acetic, so lust and gluttony aren't really where he fails. But avarice (4th circle: his pride), wrath (5th: his anger) and betrayal (9th: his separation from John and later Dean, and his dalliance with a demon) have Sam's number. And there are those things he did to stop the Apocalypse, which he knew were evil, like drinking demon blood and ordering the slaughter of an innocent. It could be argued that he, like Dean, was transgressing in order to complete a virtuous mission, but whereas Dean wasn't hurting anyone, Sam did, very much knowingly in the case of nurse Cindy. However, it could also be argued that Sam would have been very selfish *not* to do these things; wouldn't he have been the most selfish person in humankind to let all of humanity fall because of his prideful principles?
Clearly, the game was rigged by pro-Apocalypse angels and demons so that humanity's champions (Sam and Dean) could not win without going Darkside. Dean had to sell his soul to get to the first levels of Hell, and Sam had to corrupt his soul to get to the bottom of Hell. Lucifer needed Sam to be physically strong enough and morally fit (from a demonic point of view) to become his vessel. Heaven, under Zachariah's management, didn't mind because Sam's actions would bring on the Apocalypse. But if Supernatural follows Dante's blueprint, there is an additional reason. Lucifer is supposed to be imprisoned in the Ninth Circle of Hell. For Sam to completely succeed in putting Lucifer back in his box (actually a prison of ice), Sam would have to slam Lucifer all the way to the basement, and he could not do that without ripping through all the circles of Hell.
So in what ways could Sam's Hell be worse than Dean's? If we apply Inception logic, Sam could be trapped with Lucifer for, say, 400 years, not just 40. (If anyone knows the actual calculation for the passage of time between dream levels in Inception, let me know and I'll do the math for Hell.) Would Sam be forced to torture like Dean was? Well, considering that Sam knowingly killed people to get to the point where he is, and that he tortured Alastair even after he gave up the info Sam needed, that would seem redundant. Would Lucifer be gnawing at Sam the way Satan chews up traitors in Dante's Inferno? I imagine it would be much worse. He would give Sam favoured child status and passive-aggressively grill him for centuries to explain why he jumped into the pit. For Sam, it would be like moving back with a parent you tried to get away from -- one who has fallen in the world and can't get over why you carry out his career expectations for you. Sharing a basement suite. For 400 years. Now that would be Hell!
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Date: 2010-09-25 03:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-25 03:16 pm (UTC)